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tv   The Rachel Maddow Show  MSNBC  February 22, 2011 12:00am-1:00am EST

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>> as i said about this, congressman smith knows someone who's had this procedure. he may not know he knows someone, but he does. it is too common. cecile richards, president of planned parent hood. thanks for joining us. have the last word online at, also follow us on facebook and follow me at lawrence on twitter. that's happy last word. "the rachel maddow show" is up next. good evening, rachel. >> good evening, lawrence. thank you very much. thanks to you at home for staying with us the next hour. we begin with the connection between two stories we never, ever in a million years thought we would be connecting. the first story is what's going on in wisconsin, where 68,000 people turned out to protest over the weekend at the state capitol, and thousands more gathered today. day seven of the remarkable protests. that's story number one. story number two is fair warning, a story about which we tend to get aggrieved blog comments and voice mails from my
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mom when we show these pictures. but there is no other way to explain the story without showing these pictures. oh, yeah. ladies and gentlemen, the few, the proud, the wackenhut. a private security company our tax dollars have paid to guard the u.s. embassy in kabul. still there, getting paid. to guard the u.s. embassy in kabul. 17 months after these pictures of them at work surfaced. these pictures, which as you can see show american defense contractors simulating sex, posing semi nude, wearing coconut brassieres, and shooting thing s out of their hind quarters. they worked for a subsidiary of wackenhut while doing this. they were drinking vodka from places you had no idea should or could be drank from. what went on in kabul with the guys' pants off, what the governor of wisconsin is doing
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now, he has tried before. the governor of wisconsin who has thrown his state into chaos by trying to strip union rights from people that work in the state has tried this before with disastrous results, and with wackenhut. this is the milwaukee county courthouse. as you can see, it is a pretty building. when scott walker was in charge in milwaukee, he decided to fire the security guards that worked at the courthouse and two other buildings. they were public employees, represented by a union, and scott walker just fired them. now, the county board was opposed to that. they rejected his plan. then after he was blocked by the county board, mr. walker just unilaterally insisted he could do it anyway. he just seized the power to do it, claiming he had the right because there was a budget emergency. so all of those union security guards got fired, and scott walker replaced them with the
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butt vodka company guys. replaced them with wackenhut. with a private company. the company based in the u.k., and uses nonunion security guards. mr. walker fired all the union guards, replaced them with private nonunion guards. this is like the dress rehearsal for what scott walker is doing at the state level right now, and it may offer a little bit of foreshadowing as to how this is all going to work out. an arbitrator in wisconsin ruled last month that the so-called budget emergency scott walker used to justify hiring the butt vodka company guys by decree, doing it unilaterally, that justification was ginned up. quote, the county did not have a true budget crisis at the time, according to the decision from the arbitrator. it is true the county was facing budget shortfall, but according to the arbitrator, not big enough to justify his hair on fire it's an emergency, i can do what i want actions. also, firing all the union guards didn't save the money mr. walker said it was going to save.
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since scott walker hired the coconut bra vodka guys, the county since had to revise down, way down, how much money that would save. turns out they overguessed by more than $330,000. but wait, there's more. >> an arbitrator just ruled walker overstepped his authority, and now the county must give those guards their jobs back and provide back pay. >> scott walker's last big cost-saving bust the union stunt could ultimately end up costing his former employer, milwaukee county, close to a half million after all is said and done. and you may be shocked to learn, turns out the coconut brassiere people from the company didn't do a great job for the people of wisconsin once scott walker gave them those used to be public,
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used to be union jobs. the man installed as the security chief for the locations where the union guards were fired was a man with a criminal record, that included jail time. that's who they picked for their security chief! so the last time scott walker did something like this, it is desperation to get rid of union employees, he overestimated how much money it would save, and allowed for a foreign based butt vodka drink person in charge of city hall. woo hoo, that's wisconsin's new governor. that's where he comes from. the play book here is clear. the priority is to get rid of the unions, to break them up. the pretext to do that is financial, but it is clear that it is just a pretext. the unions at the center of this fight offered to the governor, they said they would essentially give him all the financial concessions he said he wanted. but he said no to that. he doesn't want the financial concessions. he wants to strip them of their union rights or he wants nothing. finances are just a pretext. among the most expensive benefit
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package, the state pays for any union employees, are the ones for the unions that supported mr. walker when he ran for governor. also happen to be the only ones exempted from his union stripping plan. if this was really about money, those would be the first ones on the chopping block, but it is not all about money. finances are just a pretext. in the midst of the supposed budget deficit emergency that makes necessary this dramatic anti-union bill, the governor supported adding about $140 million to the state's deficit, when he passed a bunch of tax cuts without paying for them. finances are just a pretext. when governor chris christie of new jersey announces he needs to do the same because of his budget crisis, he is expected to announce it tomorrow, and when john kasich of ohio moves to do it in his state because of budget crisis, it will be a pretext in those cases, too. republicans understand that the business interests that support them have always wanted to get rid of unions, as it has always been and as it will always be.
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but more directly, republicans understand sources of democratic political power, and they understand sources of democratic political power well enough to be focused across the country on how they can destroy those institutions. corporations support republicans. they made donations 93% republican. but the people who cash paychecks instead of sign them, the people that work for companies instead of own the companies, actual humans instead of conglomerates, labor unions, those groups tend to support democratic causes. here again, at the top ten big money contributors in last year's elections, seven of the top ten are right wing. the only three that are not are unions. republicans understand enough about the sources of democratic political power to want to destroy the institutions that make it possible for democrats to compete in elections. the question is whether or not
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democrats understand the sources of their political power well enough to defend those institutions against republican attacks. republicans, idelogically speaking, like to talk smack about the government. >> government is the problem. >> government is the problem. that's always the great awkwardness at the heart of republicans campaigning for political office. if you don't like government so much, if you think that government is the problem, why do you want to be in charge of it? but there are two things that republicans really like about having government power. one is the opportunity to take things government does and give them to private companies that do it instead. hello you there in the coconut bra. the other thing they have passion for using public policy to attack and dismantle institutions that support democrats electorally. in case it wasn't crystal clear enough that's what's going on in wisconsin, that that's what explains why 70,000 are in the streets of madison this weekend, in case it wasn't clear enough,
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when the republicans in wisconsin announced today what they're going to do while the democrats are gone and out of state, denying the senate the quorum needed to vote on the union busting thing, guess what the republicans are going to do while the democrats are away? guess what they are going to do next? a bill to make it harder to register to vote in wisconsin. you know, weirdly, we used this last week as an example of the kinds of issues that republicans do this on. as an example, the way they use public policy for partisan ends, to benefit their own party and hurt democrats, registering new voters has long been a great source of democratic electoral strength. why is that? because young voters and people that haven't voted before do tend to vote democratic. so if republicans can make it hard to register to vote, they can take away one of the ways that democrats win in elections. if you make it harder to register to vote, you make it harder for democrats to win elections.
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republicans understand what institutions help democrats win elections and they are using public policy to dismantle those things, for partisan purposes. so while they are waiting to destroy the unions in say wisconsin, in the meantime, while they are waiting to do that, they will use their time to destroy voter registration drives. republicans understand democrats well enough to know what to attack in order to weaken democrats. the question now is do democrats understand their own institutions and their own strengths well enough to know that they ought to be defending them. you'll choose geico and save a good bit of cash... curtis: what color is the car? i bet you'd look great in a blue car. kate: no...actually, i'm torn between a fuel-injected inline-6 and a higher torque turbo diesel. gecko: that's quite a quandary! umm, i mean of course you could save either way. curtis: yeah but is one of them blue? cause i'd go with the blue one. anncr: geico. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance.
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wisconsin congresswoman tammy baldwin has left the relatively docile confines of the beltway for the protests in wisconsin. she will join us from there next. also, extraordinary news breaking in libya. it has been a confusing day of dramatic but often conflicting reports. there are almost no western news assets able to get into libya and report what's going on there. what we can confirm in terms of
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reporting tonight is incredible. also, the "the rachel maddow show" is in part in kansas for the latest in the legal battle involving the extreme anti-abortion movement there. and we are following news from new zealand, where an earthquake had significant damage hours ago. we will report on that this hour. it is a crazy busy night. ♪ [ male announcer ] when the food we eat has nutritional gaps... so do we. but with more key nutrients than one-a-day essential, centrum fills those gaps better. centrum. complete from a to zinc. centrum fills those gaps better. you could spend as much as $200.
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for a whole lot less. new olay pro x advanced cleaning system. introducing honey bunches of oats, raisin medley. there's nothing like it! the only cereal with 1, 2, 3 kinds of raisins and crunchy multigrain flakes. you gotta try new honey bunches of oats raisin medley. as goes wisconsin, so goes ohio? so goes indiana? tomorrow, protests are expected in columbus, ohio against anti-union proposals from the republican governor there, john kasich. in indiana, republicans in state legislature today moved their anti-union bill ahead.
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and the resulting protests in indianapolis looked frankly a lot like what the protest in madison looks like this time last week before they grew to something approaching 70,000 people over the weekend. republicans think they've got a good thing going with the union stripping thing they're trying to do across the country. democrats may be starting to realize they have a good thing going by sticking up for themselves against it. joining us now, live from madison, wisconsin, congresswoman tammy baldwin whose district includes madison and the surrounding area. representative baldwin, thanks for being there in the cold and making time for us. really appreciate it. >> well, thank you for covering this important story. we are really glad. great crowd here. >> i can tell that you are among friends! absolutely. >> we are. solidarity is breaking out, democracy is breaking out, it is wonderful. >> what do you see as the stakes here? why have you been at the state capitol this weekend and today?
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>> well, you know, wisconsin has a proud decades-long tradition of supporting workers rights, supporting civil rights, being a leader and first in this country, and in the first six weeks of scott walker's governorship, he is proposing to erase all of that six decades of progress, and we've drawn a line in the sand, it is about workers rights. it is not about balancing the budget, it is about fundamental human rights and people want to be heard. you have seen democracy break out all over. people want a voice in this debate. they don't want this bill rammed through. >> the republican strategy seems to be to not budge an inch, not negotiate, to wait it out. do you have confidence being out there, talking with your constituents that the protesters will have the stamina to keep the pressure on if it goes on awhile? >> i've been talking to protesters on and on, and people
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have resolve. people have really committed themselves to this battle, because they recognize that this is now something that the whole nation, in fact the whole world is watching, and people -- my colleagues all last week kept coming up to me saying look, you have to succeed in wisconsin, because if you don't, my state will be next. they have the resolve. [ crowd cheering ] >> if the public sector unions are broken by republicans in wisconsin, do you think there is a national effect of that? i understand that people think the next state is next, but do you think there is a partisan motivation, it is republicans pushing these things in so many states, and it is democrats that are pushing back. >> it is absolutely about union busting and politics, and i think if we don't succeed here
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in wisconsin, there is trouble that's going to happen elsewhere. and as you just noted, this effort is combined with the voter id law, and perhaps our same day registration on election day might be put in jeopardy also. this is about politics, but we have drawn a line in the sand in wisconsin. we are going to keep on going. democracy is breaking out! >> congresswoman tammy baldwin, democrat of wisconsin whose district includes madison, i can tell you're going to have a very good night among your constituents. thank you for your time, ma'am, appreciate it. >> thank you, rachel. >> happy people there. i should mention that this week, the law enforcement agencies that keep everybody safe at the state capitol put out a statement saturday, there were 68,000 people there, thanking the demonstrators, saying there were no arrests and no serious incidents. they say you conducted yourselves with great decorum and civility and if the eyes of the nation were upon us, you could have shown those who even
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passionately disagree. a thank you letter from law enforcement. in the mid east, they are not having a politics fight. in the middle east, they are having a literal fight over who controls the country. things took an ugly turn, a dramatic turn and a really, really weird turn in libya, where it looks like the government may be toppling. that's up next. ♪
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five and a half weeks after tunesia ousted its dictator of 23 years, ten days after egypt ousted its dictator of 30 years, the country in between the two other countries, libya appears to be on the verge of following suit. because of a ban on any kind of independent reporting, there are almost no international journalists to witness it. instead, we're looking at youtube footage and relying on reports from thousands in the capital of tripoli and around the country. protesters have taken over several significant towns, including libya's second largest city. they have also seized two of the state run satellite news channels. witnesses say response to this by moammar gadhafi, the dictator of over 40 years, was to order the air force to attack parts of the capitol city. his son denies they targeted protesters, claiming instead they were bombing weapons depots. his son delivered a rambling
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40-minute speech after midnight, local time, blaming the bbc, and weirdly, drug addicts for the current unrest. as for the whereabouts of his father, rumors he fled to venezuela were being spread by the british foreign minister today. those rumors were denied by hugo chavez's government in venezuela. late tonight, gadhafi himself put out one of the weirdest statements i have seen by any leader in any country in any circumstance. have you seen this? libyan tv said gadhafi would make a statement. everybody was expecting a speech like his son gave the night before, maybe something defiant, but oddly lit and prerecorded like the mubarak statements before he was forced out. but that would not be weird enough for colonel gadhafi. when he finally did go on tv at approximately 2 a.m. local time, the entire thing lasted 20 seconds. it was very strange. it involved a truck, a hat, and a big white umbrella. ready? this is it.
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>>translator: i want to have some rest. because i was talking to the young man at green square, i went to stay the night with them, then it started raining. i want to show them i am in tripoli, not in venezuela. don't believe those dogs in the media. >> and then it went to black. what's with the hat? i don't know. the umbrella and also the truck? yeah. no idea. even if gadhafi is still in libya in his hat and in his truck with his umbrella, that didn't stop his regime from starting to apparently fracture today. egypt's army reporting on its border, border guards started to abandon their posts. how did the egyptian army make that statement today? naturally, they put it on their facebook page. it is the new egypt. there were reports that a group of high ranking military officers called on libya's army
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to take power there. effectively, the military should side with the protesters and against gadhafi. two libyan air force colonels flew jets to malta and asks for political asylum. libya's ambassadors to china, indonesia, poland, and the arab league all quit today, and the united nations said gadhafi was committing genocide against his own people. as for the american response, secretary of state clinton released a strong statement saying the u.s. strongly condemns the violence in libya. now is the time to stop this unacceptable bloodshed. joining us now, my friend and host of "hardball," chris matthews. thanks for your time tonight. >> you are so right, you have caught the weird. i was thinking three men in history identified with the umbrella.
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louie phillippe, from france. chamberlain at munich, and now moammar gadhafi. three umbrella men. >> to have the hat and the umbrella and the truck all together, it is clear it was raining, but this goes down in annals of all-time stranging statements. what do you think the u.s. is going to do about what's going on in libya? >> i don't know. look, i don't know. i think he's had his 40 years. he went in with nixon in '69. the sell-by date is apparent now. we thought gadhafi was going to be his successor. i think the people saw that coming. i think we saw the same in egypt. once it is clear that the aging of the current president is not going to bring change but continuation, that's when they seem to strike, the people in the streets. they say oh, my god, if we don't strike now, we have another error coming of the same.
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>> they said they are confident how egypt was handled. the president said he is happy how they dealt with it in every step. do you feel we learned anything important about foreign policy in this administration, about how hillary clinton and barack obama work as a team? >> i was thinking back as far as i could possibly remember. i think we're always right to back nationalism. i think you would agree with that. nationalism in the end, pride of a country in the country is almost always something you better be behind. we were with it in eastern and central europe in the '80s, not with it in asia, when we fought in the wars in asia. but we see it here. and liberalization. take the same policy you take at home. go for expansion of freedom, if you can, and you usually can. and always go with nationalism and expansion of freedom, and you'll probably end up being on the right side. go with repression and you lose. even if late, you're better off. get with it as fast as you can. best thing we did was in the
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caaa sanctions foray part i'd. we were with mandela when he came. starting in algeria. we can be on the right side of history, even though we are an older country. nationalism and liberalization, go with them when you can. >> chris, your new documentary about bill clinton premiers tonight at 10:00 after the show. do you think there's a solid line connecting the bill clinton approach to foreign policy and barack obama approach? are there important differences the way the two presidents approach problems and chaos like this? >> the people with it, the popular. when you see tonight, one thing that will grab you i believe knowing you, the scene when kevin spacey describes this when bill clinton, the word gets out that he is coming, former president from a western country, people come by tens of thousands and start whispering, peace maker.
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i think we can be with the good guys. we can be there. bill clinton is a more traditional politician than barack obama. barack obama, his heart was with the people. i could see it from the beginning. bill clinton is with the popular movement generally because he is a good politician. where barack's heart leads him. hillary is more conservative israeli policy. hillary got a little off base, the president didn't like that. too many signals we were with mubarak sticking around, too nice at the end. it wasn't personal, it was bad politics. i think barack's heart is with the people and they know it. i think it is a good place to be. >> chris matthews, whose "hardball" documentary, president of the world, the bill clinton phenomenon premiers tonight. we are all very excited. thanks, chris.
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>> thank you. why part of this show has decamped to kansas, and why the rest of it may be on its way coming up next. if you have osteoporosis, and you take once-monthly boniva, check out the myboniva program. it's free to join, and it shows you lots of ways to help improve your bone strength. like bone-healthy exercises that are easy to do. boniva works with your body to help stop and reverse bone loss. and myboniva gives you calcium-rich recipes... monthly reminders... and even a month of boniva, free. so call or go to and sign up now. ( announcer ) don't take boniva if you problems with your esophagus, low blood calcium, severe kidney disease, or can't sit or stand for at least one hour.
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follow dosing instructions carefully. stop taking boniva and tell your doctor if you have difficult or painful swallowing, chest pain or severe or continuing heartburn, as these may be signs of serious upper digestive problems. if jaw problems or severe bone, joint, and/or muscle pain develop, tell your doctor. ask your doctor if boniva can help you stop losing and start reversing. and join the myboniva program. to get one month free, plus more tips and recipes, visit, or call 1-800-4-boniva. and go everywhere. to help revitalize a neighborhood in massachusetts, restore a historic landmark in harlem, fund a local business in chicago, expand green energy initiatives in seattle. because when you're giving, lending and investing in more communities across the country, more opportunities happen.
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we could've gone a more traditional route... ... but it wouldn't have been nearly as memorable. ♪ how'd you do that? do what? you made it taste like chocolate. it has 35% of your daily value of fiber. tasty fiber, that's a good one! ok, her mind. [ male announcer ] fiber one chewy bars. last week on an almost party line vote, republicans in the house voted to eliminate funding for planned parenthood nationwide. if you or anyone you know has ever gotten a pap smear,
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checkup, contraception or anything at planned parenthood, you have house republicans to thank for trying to make that go away. friday's vote is part of a an anti-abortion juggernaut by those in washington now, who have appeared to convince themselves that american people sent them to washington to make abortion that much harder to get. to grow the government to the point it can insist on its own chosen outcome to your pregnancy, thus relieving you of the burden of that decision, thus relieving you of that freedom. aside from voting to cut funding for planned parenthood, republicans are also trying to eliminate coverage for abortions from health insurance policies. they would do it by raising taxes. raising taxes on any policy that covers abortion. net effect of which would be to likely cause all insurance companies to just stop covering it. who, after all, is going to choose the raise your tax rate insurance plan specifically to cover something no one ever thinks they're going to need. house republicans also want to
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let hospitals and medical providers refuse to perform abortion related services or even refuse to refer women to places that will, even when the life of the mother is at risk. i recognize you might die because of it, but i am so anti-abortion that i refuse to help you stay alive. it is a difficult position for a movement that wants you to call them pro-life, but house republicans have decided to interpret last elections as a mandate from the american people to push for multiple extreme across the board national abortion restrictions, so they are going for it. in 2008, 35 years after roe v. wade, 87% of countries lacked an abortion provider. 87% of counties, no prior. abortion is a constitutionally protected measure that has been made functionally unavailable in all but 13% of american counties. in part, that's because people opposed to abortion rights have decided to target doctors that provide them. attacking and threatening and harassing doctors so intensely
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over the years that a doctor's choice to provide abortions is something that takes not just time and training, but a significant measure of personal bravery as well. legally, constitutionally, american women have the right. functionally, the intimidation tactics of the anti-abortion movement made it all but impossible to exercise that right. in many parts of the country, rather than act to protect the availability of this procedure against the movement that targeted it, house republicans have decided to pylon, to use public policy in washington to make it less available. on the front lines, too, american institutions that in other circumstances would be expected and called on to protect victims of harassment and intimidation, those institutions have been turned by conservative politicians into instruments of just further harassment and further intimidation of those people that are already victims. the kind of thing you expect in a place where the government is called the regime, not here at home, not here in the american heartland. but that's what's happened.
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in 1980, a doctor in wichita relocated his practice, staff and patients to a temporary makeshift clinic. he did it because his actual clinic, the place he regularly saw patients, had been bombed. the only way he saw fit to continue, the only safe way to see patients in the immediate aftermath of this attack was to go underground. five years after dr. george tiller's clinic was bombed and he went underground, thousands of anti-abortion activists from all over the country converged on his practice in wichita. spent the summer of 1991 physically blockading entrance to his office, preventing patients from getting in to see the doctor by sheer force of volume. two years after that, shelly shannon who had been at the summer of protests walked up to his car in the parking lot of his clinic and shot him. shelly shannon did not succeed in killing dr. tiller. she shot him in both arms. he returned to work the next day. the man that would ultimately kill dr. tiller 16 years later,
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the man that went on to shoot him at point blank range in his church, this man, scott roeder, would first pay more than two dozen visits to shelly shannon while she was in prison. scott roeder told amanda robb, a reporter, that it was at this time that he grew close to the woman that tried to kill dr. tiller that he began to think of killing the doctor himself. in march of 2009, it was dr. tiller who was the one on trial. he faced 19 misdemeanor criminal charges, alleging he had an improper relationship, improper financial relationship with a doctor that provided the second opinions required by law on late term abortions. scott roeder attended that trial several times. after deliberating after less than an hour, the jury returned with not guilty verdicts on all 19 counts, scott roeder was devastated. he said that outcome, his acquittal on the 19 misdemeanor charges in spring of 2009, he has said that was part of what pushed him to murder the doctor two years later.
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>> did you decide it was incumbent upon you to do something? >> there was nothing being done, and the legal process had been exhausted. and these babies were dying every day. so i felt that i needed to act and quickly for those children. >> dr. tiller and his attorneys at the time were confident that he had acted properly, that they would get a good, fair trial. they had never been all that worried about those charges, those 19 misdemeanor charges, but the anti-abortion movement had seen it as their best chance yet at getting dr. tiller shut down. in kansas, you can convene a criminal grand jury by getting enough signatures on a petition, something the anti-abortion group operation rescue did twice. neither of those grand juries ended up charging him with anything. they tried to get at him through the legal system, but nothing seems to stick, until they got the 19 misdemeanors, the charges
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that actually got dr. tiller into the courtroom. how can you get from no real results from citizen petition grand juries, turning up nothing on this doctor, to 19 criminal misdemeanor charges that actually forced him into court? it was a long and winding journey, but it all started when you got this guy elected, state's attorney general. >> another example in kansas is george tiller. >> i want to first tell you who does not endorse attorney general phill kline? abortionist dr. george tiller does not endorse phill kline. >> when phill kline took office in 2003 as state attorney general in kansas, he set in motion a plan to use his power as attorney general to target dr. tiller. today he stands accused by the disciplinary board in kansas, the state bar, of ethics violations. they are accused of misleading officials to get information
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from state agencies, and to get medical records from dr. tiller. he is also accused of lying about what he and his staff were doing with the medical records. according to the complaint against mr. kline, what they were doing was comparing medical records subpoenaed from dr. tiller's office, redacted records without patient names, comparing those to records subpoenaed from a nearby hotel where his patients often stayed. they compared two sets of records in order to unredact them, in order to learn names of patients. as alleged in the complaint, quote, the document created as a result of this effort lists 221 potential adult patient names, 221 addresses, street city and state, and 221 adult patient telephone numbers. do you need to see a doctor? have you considered the possibility that the state attorney general will use the power of his office to subpoena your records if you see a doctor he doesn't like? your name, address, phone number, diagnoses are gone through in some state government office somewhere?
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according to the complaint against mr. kline, his staff also, quote, engaged in an effort to identify visitors and employees by staking out the clinic, following visitors and employees and recording automobile license plate numbers. as attorney general, attorney general phill kline tried to use information he got during his george tiller inquisition to file criminal charges against dr. tiller, but the local prosecutor in wichita where he practiced had the charges dismissed. then phill kline lost his re-election bid in 2006. all those medical records, they are still around, and the new attorney general used them to file the 19 misdemeanor charges against dr. tiller, that's how they got him into court, even none of them stuck. the charges he was acquitted of in march of 2009 so quickly, that trial closely watched by the whole anti-abortion movement, including by scott roeder himself in person, the
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guy who ultimately killed him. phill kline could be disbarred for the way he targeted dr. tiller and conducted that inquisition, for the way he used that office to take the side of the people that had been trying to put dr. tiller out of business by any means necessary. today was day one of phill kline's ethics trial in topeka, kansas. "the rachel maddow show" was there. joining us now, our producer, rebekah dryden. thanks very much for being there. i know you hate being on camera. let us know what happened at the hearing today. >> well, the hearing barely got under way today. this was one of what promises to be a lengthy process. mr. kline himself did testify, his testimony started today. it will continue tomorrow. we did get a chance to talk to phill kline on his way into the hearing this morning, as well as a number of the anti-abortion movement members who were here in support of him. >> i would like to ask you how
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you're thinking about defending yourself, what your plan is? >> with the truth. with the truth. >> anything more you want to say about that? >> i think it will reveal itself during the hearing, and i'm excited about having the opportunity to share the truth. >> what do you do, worst case scenario, what do you do next? >> i walk out of this room and i still speak the truth. so, i mean, their contemplation is whether it violates any rules. i can't speak for them. i know what i'd do if i was in charge of this hearing. >> mr. kline, do you yourself believe abortion should be made illegal? >> do i myself? yes. another comment about that. i am also anti-murder and put a lot of murderers away, too. i follow the law. >> have you been following the
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case a long time? >> no. i just got a call from one of the ladies and i said i want to be here. >> tell me why it is important to you. >> well, phill kline is trying to do the right things for those that are hurting, and i support him for what he stands up for. >> when you say those that are hurting, tell me who you mean? >> well, the way i'm understanding it, the abortionists don't like what phyllis trying to get done. >> what do you think he is trying to get done? >> he is trying to clear the process, finding out to understand items from the past, trying to find out who some of the guilty people are, and the abortionists don't like that. >> we want to make sure these people know there are people watching them and that they're accountable to the public. >> that last person you heard from was cheryl sullenger,
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senior policy analyst for operation rescue, an anti-abortion group, based in wichita, kansas. if her name sounds familiar, it was her name and number that was found on a piece of paper on the dashboard of scott roeder's car when he was pulled over and arrested after the murder of george tiller. >> "the rachel maddow show" producer rebekah dryden, thank you for your reporting out there. keep it up. see you soon. >> thanks, rachel. >> we'll be right back with more. it's been five years. five years. well, progressive gives megan discounts that you guys didn't. paperless, safe driver, and i get great service. meredith, what's shakin', bacon? they'll figure it out. getting you the discounts you deserve. now, that's progressive. call or click today.
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abortions are not available in south central kansas right now. the absence of services does not appear to be because of lack of demand for the service, and there are doctors in that region that are willing to provide those services to meet that demand, to meet that need. reproductive health services in south central kansas are essentially suspended because of violence and intimidation. violence because the doctor that used to provide that service in south central kansas was killed last year because he provided those services, and intimidation because the doctor who stepped forward and indicted a willing nothing to replace dr. tiller is being targeted in the same way dr. tiller was.
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joining us now is the legal coordinator for the feminist majority foundation. thank you for being here. >> can you describe the levels of intimidation and types of intimidation abortion providers across the country are getting? >> we have seen everything from a group of extremists outside tracking women who arrive at the clinic, videotaping them, tracking their license plates, writing them down, to call for large events that gather out of state anti-abortion extremists and have them come in and have large events in mobs outside the facilities where their interfere with entrances and exists, blocking traffic, causing a cacophony outside, to outside
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stalking where they're following the doctors and employees to their homes, their clinics, emp hospitals, churches, the schools where their children go to school, to criminal threats, to death threats in letters, e-mails, phone calls, to actual violence where they're attacked, to clinic invasions, to bombings, arson, and murder. >> the most visible form of intimidation is something i don't feel very critical of. i feel like political speech, it's often a good sign when it's loud and raucous and confrontational. the issue with the anti-abortion movement using that as a tactic is not just the speech part of it but the attempt to intimidate people from using that type of service. how do you navigate that as someone who cares for first-amendment rights? >> the difference is when you
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have criminal conduct coupled with expression, no longer with the extremists hide behind the skirts of the first amendment. what has happened with like the wanted posters that you have covered extensively and so well, these are road 3457s, and they help show and point out and by using the rhetoric they use and saying this is where a doctor is, this is a murderer. these people are killing children, pointing out their churches, who they are, and drilling this information forward over and over again, plus the stalking, plus the following them and the threats. that is not protected by there first amendment. also, patients should not be hostages. neither should people be hostages in their homes or when they go to get health care. >> at the federal level, there has been some recognition that antiabortion movement, the extreme end has conducted
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themselves in a way that abortion providers need special protect. the idea of protecting the entrances to clinics so they can provide the services they're supposed to provide. is that federal protection doing enough? should there be a special category in terms of law enforcement to make sure the providers and patients are safe? >> i think that we have excellent laws available right now. first of all, we would like these individuals, especially the extremists, to be pursued for criminal stalking, for crimthal threats, for tres passing. unfortunately, going to her home, lying in wait after dark for her to get home, invading her family care facilities, there's not one local law enforcement, not one arrest made in wichita, but that's why in part federal intervention is
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necessary. the law says you cannot by threat of force or force, you know, threaten these -- prevent and inhibit, go after abortion providers. therefore, we wish the federal government would go after the extremists with everything they have. >> given that the law is there. >> in addition to cyberstalking and lots of other rules. >> you track the stuff we have been reporting on way more than i ever thought we would need to. i have a feeling this will not be the last time we talk to you. thanks for being here. >> thank you. don't forget, chris matthews returns at the top of the hour about the life of bill clinton. more rachel maddow show when we come back. ♪
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breaking news from new zealand tonight where a shallow earthquake struck a church this afternoon. fay tallies at several locations. the military is helping with the efforts this morning. they have a level three emergency which is the highest level for an emergency. all flights in and out have been canceled. some sof the worst damage right in the city center. in the city center, we know collapsed buildings crushed two buses and have trapped an unknown amount of people. there are downed phone lines and flooding caused by the ruptured lines. this damage by the quake comes five months after they were damaged by a 7.1 magnitude qu


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